| Date Posted: 2/3/2009
Posted By: Jennifer Roberson
Member Since: 4/4/2008
Number of Replies: 75
Last Post: 2/10/2009 |
| | I would like for someone to explain what happened on Saturday Jan. 31st. | | I would simply like to know what everyone else's perception of Saturday was in the situation between Mike and Matt. If you don't know, don't post. I would like some clarity though. Thanks. Jen |
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 | Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I heard Matt yelling at Mike because Matt believes Mike cheated. Mike drew seven after mulliganing down to six. Matt blew up on Mike. Thats all I know. I don't know what was said. Sorry if anyone hates me for posting this.
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| No, you are free to post whatever you want ben. I don't believe Mike cheated. I watched him cheat, I watched him try to conceal it, and Then I watched him lie about it. I will write Up a more extensive play by play of what happened. and then link it here.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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 | Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| I looked up this whole thing in the Judge's Rulebook or whatever it is. If Mike intentionally cheated (which i think he did according to what ive heard), he should have been disqualified from the tournament. If it was unintentional, it only would've been a warning. |
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| How do you prove intentionally cheating? And I did email my contact person with the DCI here is the email I sent her:Hi I have a rules question to ask and I wasn't sure who to direct it to so if you could either pass it along or give me the contact information for the person to ask it to I would appreciate it. The question is yesterday during the finals of the Prerelease for Conflux a person mulliganed to six cards and the drew 7 and his opponent immediately called me over and had him count his cards in front of both of us and he had 7 not the 6 cards that he should have and his opponent said he was blatatently cheating while he claimed it was a accident and volunteered to take a game loss and go to game 3 which I thought was the appropriate action so I said to do that and his opponent said he should be completely disqualified from the match. I guess my question is was I right in saying it was a game loss and not disqualifying the person? What is the rules enforcement level for Prerelease events, I was thinking the minimum rules enforcement but was not sure. Just checking as this led to a very uncomfortable situation when the Prerelease is supposed to be fun. Thanks. Her response was this:Marty:
The prerelease events are 8-K with a the lowest rules enforcement level, so I think a Game loss was fine.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| you can't prove intentional cheating unless there is video surveillance there. Or maybe a few more people who saw what I saw. And Martin, or should I say "Marty" I SUGGESTED a match loss because I didn't know what the rules were, and I personally don't think a cheater should be allowed to finish the tournament.
I'm almost done with my write up....
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Uggh I do so hate the nickname "Marty", I do believe everything I have read suggests Pennydude is correct in the rules it would have been a warning unless video (which we don't have) proved it was intentional somehow then it would be a have been a dq.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| I can't help but think all of this could have been avoided if Dale had a Serum Powder in hand.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Here ya go, this is what happened, on my side of the table. Please try to ignore any and all spelling/grammar mistakes I may have made. I re-read it about 5 tims, but I did in fact fail English in high-school (just the 4th quarter)
http://midmagic.com/thehappening.aspx
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I have, on many occasions, seen Mike draw directly into his hand. While he may usually put them on the table, it doesn't mean that if he doesn't he is cheating(double negative, try to deal with it). Mike has, on multiple multiple times, thrown his entire hand in a pile on the table when playing against me. Anyone who plays with Mike knows that if he screws up, he concedes the game. Imagine yourself in Mike's situation, Matt. Imagine that you were(most likely) a better player than the majority of the players at the horse. Imagine that you had never knowingly cheated and got accused of it. What would you do? Of course you would try to make an excuse because you didn't know exactly how it happened. On a side note, siding cards in and not siding any out makes your deck worse, not better. Did you happen to mention to him before he drew that he only got 6 this time around? I tend to sometimes forget that I am drawing 6 and not 7, and end up drawing 7 instead. It happens to everybody. Only this time, it happened to someone you hate. Thats the difference. Isn't it remarkable how you let him draw and play before you called him out on it? I'm sorry, I know this is your site and everything, but without one of us stepping up, he will have no support. If I sit idly by watching you bad mouth him until the end of time, it makes him look bad. You're making my friend look bad. I will not sit back and let that happen. You're my friend too, but Mike is a much better friend. If you know anything about Mike, you'd know that he is my Magic "teacher". Never once, not ever, has he even implied that I cheat. Haven't you noticed that I have become a better player, Matt? Haven't you noticed that no longer will I let all of the "good" players steamroll me? That is a testament to Mike. He is a good Magic player, and he doesn't cheat on purpose. Get over it.
I'm sincerely sorry if I crossed a line in this post.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Ben, I understand he is your friend, and it is good to have friends who stand up for you. And like the first thing that I wrote I didn't "dislike" him before saturday and I still don't hate him.
We were even having some pleasant conversation on that day. He was asking if I was going to stay and draft and I was telling him how it would make Bridget a little mad at me.
I think that you are not looking at the picture with an open mind. Much like you may assume I am not either. He is your friend and you believe what he says and that is a testament to your friendship. And kudos we should all be so lucky. But what he did he didn't do to a friend. And I doubt he would ever try to do it to you, or Jen or anyone else he would call a friend.
What I saw is what happened. I am not embelishing to make him look like a dick. He tried to cheat me and he got caught. I am not even entirely sure what him being your teacher has to do with anything unless you are being a character witness. I by no means think that just because he is a cheater that he somehow "taught" you to cheat.
Siding in cards and not out does not necessarily make your deck worse. What if you feel that Every card in your deck is crucial to its function? What if you also feel you need to put in 4 more cards to beat the specific deck you are playing against? It is entirely plausible. I have had many matches where I don't take stuff out even though I need to put cards in because I "Need" them to stay in the deck. I would have loved to just put in 4 more cards.
And, as I pointed out, drawing seven instead of six does happen to everyone. And I said it has happened to me. The difference is I did not try to hide it and you did not try to hide it. If he had his cards all in his hand like a peacocks tail then yes I would have said.... Um only 6. But he didn't He had them keenly positioned to obscure the last card. and it took a little time for me to ascertain that it was indeed an extra card. (did I mention he was hiding it?)
And then he wouldn't even count them the first time I asked him???? what is that about? He knew he had 7. What other explaination is there for not counting your hand after someone asks you to do that?
Also, there are professional players who have been caught cheating at top events. So the "I'm a good player thus I don't cheat" statement is not a true statement. People cheat for many many different reasons. Maybe he thought that even after beating me the first game my deck was still superior, maybe he just wanted to show that I was an olivious idiot and he could do what he pleased. I have no idea why he did. All I know is that I was there and I know what I saw. He drew 7, he hid his seventh card, and now he is lying about it.
Keep in mind, that the Ex-governor of ours who you aren't so fond of... He has friends too. And all of them think he is innocent. And that is fine. thats what friends are for.
And no, so far your posting has not been out of line. You are trying to protect your friend, and you are doing so with out calling me an f'n retard or anything else like that.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| And in case there is a little confusion when I say I watched him draw seven, I in no way mean that he pulled 7 cards off the library 1 at a time. or 3 and then 4. If He had done, that then yes, I would have been obligated to say "only 6" He grabbed the top of the library and removed a stack of 7 that became his hand. At no point did I know he had 7 cards before needing to sit and stare at his hand. I didn't "let" him make this mistake. And as I said when He started counting his hand out I had a very uneasy feeling. I also Had an uneasy feeling just asking him the first time. Because it was infact hard to tell if he did have 7 cards. So I asked. and he said 6 without looking, without counting? what does that mean to you?
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| First off, I would just like to say to your resopnse Matt that I find it amazing that only you and Bridgette have had an issue with Mike cheating. No one else has ever brought this up. I deeply respect Bridgette and therefore mean absolutely no disrespect to her. Second, I would like to point out that if you really payed any attention to Mike and his playing you would know that he is a diabetic. You may think this is an excuse, but blood sugar is a major factor. A good blood sugar is anywhere from 80 - 120. His blood sugar was around 40. This decreases his mental awareness to that of a drunkard. You can notice his actions vary when he has low blood sugar. That is not your responsibility to control his diabetes. According to what I have heard as well, you demanded him to be tossed from the tournement, not simply be ok with a game loss. In regards to Christian (I'm sorry for bringing you into this), there have been many instances where more than just Mike has caught him, such as Josh from Decatur (sorry, I don't know his last name). Another point about his winning record is that he puts a lot of time into magic. He spends about the same amount of time studying as I do for school; checking websites for decks and strategies against them and such. He has been pitted against many great magic players and this leaves the Hobby Horse and its patrons a little lackluster in his eyes. He has a great loyalty to magic and the Hobby Horse. With the competitive nature not being that great there it is more likely that someone with great skills is going to "run the table." The last point I wish to make is simply this: Is this website for Matt's personal problems by signifying something he cannot prove (nor will any of the long time Hobby Horse patrons agree with), or is this a website that is suppose to be about magic. I honestly hope in my heart of hearts that Martin tells you to disclaim all Hobby Horse activities from Matt Ratz's site. I will not comment any further because I was not there, but I know that Mike didn't cheat. You can call me a liar to, but your words mean nothing to me in that regard. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| The problem is only Mike knows the answer. My cards have stuck together quite a lot throughout the years, especially after eating some greasy foods. When pushing cards off your deck, I have pulled more than what I desired on several occasions. Maybe he pulled seven without meaning to, found out after looking at his hand, and then didn't want to lose the game so he continued with the mistake he made, and this might have caused him to say 6, and also drop his entire hand on the table.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Any way I see it, I don't believe Mike intentionally cheated.
Pwn'd. |
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| I find it interesting that the two people who have won the most tournaments in Hobby Horse history are also the two people who get accused of cheating the most at the Hobby Horse. I can personally say I have never had a problem playing against either Mike D. or Christian at any time and maybe you think I am just too naive or just plain country dumb to catch someone cheating but I had strongly suspected someone at the old store of cheating when he was playing me but he very soon after stopped playing and eventually moved away. But I can say I have known Christian personally since grade school and while I while call him a "odd duck" to his face I can honestly say he is not a cheater. I have played many games against him where he has to mulligan to 5 cards and he has lost games and matches against me because of this so if he is cheating he is doing a piss poor job of it.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Jen, again, You are his girlfriend, how loyal would you be if you agreed with everyone who callenged his integrity.
It is not just Bridget and I. In the write up I mention multiple instances and comments I have heard from other people. And like I said, before my personal incidents. I defended Mike! I did not list the people who have commented to me, but I will if you need it.
Also I said in a response to Martin and in my write up that I did not ask for him to be kicked out, I definitely didn't Demand it. I simply suggested it because I did not know what the rulings were. After hearing the ruling I did not sit there and continue to say he should be kicked out. I accepted that what both Martin and Christian had said was true.
And as far as this website is concerened. I believe you asked a question and I tried to answer it. and Like I should have said in my response to Ben, I am over this, it doesn't keep me up at nights. I don't really care. I will just in the future play a different kind of game against Mike. Overall, I think it is hillarious.
As far as you knowing Mike didn't cheat. You don't know that. You can't know that. the only person who knows what he was doing is Mike. You and Ben and others believe what he says about the situation and that is great. As for Me, I 100% believe he did in fact cheat, due to what I consider overwhelming evidence. Again. I don't "know" he cheated and I can't "know" without being able to dig into his head. But I believe he did. This is my Jesus Freak Moment.
Furthermore, I am going to ask this question which I ask to all the creationists that I have conversed with. What would you (and Ben) personally need to jump ship to the Mike is a cheater side? Assuming he didn't cheat, and all this is something I made up because I am a horrible person. What would it take for you?
Would he have to draw 10 cards in front of you and then lie? would he have to have 5 cards in his lap at all times? what would it take? Would nothing he could ever possibly do convince you?
Now, If your qualifier for cheating happened when you weren't there, and someone else told you it happened? what if Ben told you it happened? then what? would you refuse to believe it? (I kind of hope the answer is yes because you should be loyal to your friend)
My point is that "Hopefully" nothing I can ever say will change your view on Mike. And that makes you an awesome girlfriend.
Now what if I told you I saw him kissing another girl at a bar? You wouldn't believe me. (Maybe if he was a cheater in the past it would be more believable.) But what if he came home with actual evidence of him kissing another girl? lipstick on the collar, glitter in the pants, whatever. Then what would you believe? would you still say no he isn't cheating on me, or would you become suspicious.
(By no means am I implying that Mike is cheating on you. I am just trying to grasp what it would take to break your trust.)
Again my point is that you trust Mike, you love Mike. I am just a guy who he doesn't get along with. Of course you take his side and I don't fault you for it. But just because those previous statements are true does not mean that every thing he says is also true. I was there. I saw what happened and for me. That is all I need.
I am not trying to change anyones opinion. I don't care. I would however like to open some eyes to critical thinking. Again, I was simply answering your question as to what happend on Saturday.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| I just wanted to say I'm sorry Martin and Christian. I personally have never had an issue with either. I did not mean that as an attack, but just as a scenario for comparison. Chrisitin is cool as hell in my book. He always has a great demeanor, is a great sport, and is one of the few people that never throws a fit if he looses. Perhaps I should have used Nation as the example. I didn't think of it until now. Once again, I sincerely apologize to both of you! I just wanted to know the situation because I love Mike will all of my heart, and that will never change. Another thing he loves is magic, so when he comes home from his favorite hobby as upset as he was it makes me concerned. Also, I think the * is a little much. If Mike decides to visit the Mecca then this could make them think something that is not proven all because of Matt's website, not a true representation of the Hobby Horse. I deeply repsect you as well Martin, because you have helped us out in many instances, and once again I thank you very much. In my personal opinion I would like to see the * removed from his name due to the effect it could have at other stores. This a request, NOT a demand. Thanks. Jen |
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| Thanks Jen, I have always had the highest respect for Mike as a MTG player he is one of the best to play at the Horse. And yes I think the * is a little over the top. I didn't mention Mr. Nation in my previous post but yes that was the person I strongly suspected of cheating me and I know Ryan Smith accused him of drawing extra cards against him on occasion and Ryan wouldn't have a reason to make that up but I really want to believe that everyone is playing fair at the Horse nowadays. It would be helpful for events like all-rare drafts and prereleases if we had someone with a lot of knowledge of the game of MTG as I can't watch every game at every table and still help the occasional other customer who walks in the door so I can look into that, maybe someone like Christian or Pennydude would like to help out from time to time?
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I am a little confused here. First Christian was a cheater according to Mike, and (allegedly) Josh. but Martin swears by him and now he isn't? Could you explain this to me? because Someone here is lying (or just confused), either it is Martin (Whom I agree with) or it is Mike (Whom I don't) You don't get it both ways.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Matt, I didn't hear a single word about this from Mike. I formed my opinion based off of what I read in you and everyone else's posts. Was I a little biased because I consider myself a friend of Mike's? Maybe, but that doesn't mean I can't see both sides. The appropriate action was taken by the judge, but YOU went one or two steps further and treated a good friend of mine like dirt. The fact that he may or may not have cheated is irrelevant when the worse of the two situations is belittling someone else.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I don't believe I belittled anyone, nor do I feel like I am treating anyone like dirt. I wrote what happened TO ME. After someone asked what happened.
And, in my opinon the appropriate action was not taken by the judge. Nor could it have been. Because as we pointed out, with out video, or time travel or more witnesses, we cannot prove anything. The appropriate action for cheating is to be kicked out of the tournament. That is what the rule says. the appropriate action for an accident is a warning which is what he got because that is as much as can be "Proven"
What would you do if someone stole $1000 dollars from your pocket? just seconds before a Cop walked around the corner. There is no one else who saw it happen, but now you don't have the money and this guy does? Do you think the Cop is going to take this money from some guy and give it to you? What if the Cop just confiscated the money? Your still out $1000? What do you think might happen if you were in a situation where you were the person wronged and there was no "proof" of what you said was happening? I bet the guy who stole the money has friends and family who would swear to the goodness of him? What would you do?
I would be very interested in your response to my original question also.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| To answer that question: nothing. Nothing can convince me that Mike is a cheater unless he straight up tells me that, just like nothing is going to convince you otherwise on your opinion. I find it rather saddening that you believe calling someone else a shitty person isn't belittling or treating them like dirt.
Pwn'd. |
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| Hey Marty, can you get a setup like they had in the movie "Casino" where Robert DeNiro had all of the gambling tables watched.
Ace Rothstein: [voice-over] In Vegas, everybody's gotta watch everybody else. Since the players are looking to beat the casino, the dealers are watching the players. The box men are watching the dealers. The floor men are watching the box men. The pit bosses are watching the floor men. The shift bosses are watching the pit bosses. The casino manager is watching the shift bosses. I'm watching the casino manager. And the eye-in-the-sky is watching us all.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I was just recanting what happened that night. I didn't add that to my write up. It is what I said that night so I wanted to include it. Just like I included that he called me an asshole and told me to blow him (multiple times).
So your telling me that if you sat down at a tournament opposite Mike and in the finals he played his 5th Doran. 4 are in the graveyard... You would not call him a cheater? What if everytime he played a mulldrifter he drew three cards. He counted them outloud so you knew he was drawing three. Then told Martin he only drew two. This is all hypothetical, but you are telling me that you would just let these things slide?
Ignore the fact that Mike would never actually do any of these things. This is entirely hypothetical.
What about the $1000?
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| For the record (and good God don't let it go any further than this), I have no recollection or ever accusing Christian of cheating.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Matt, that question is ridiculous. Not a single person in their right mind would let that slide, but I would at least be a gentlemen and offer the oppurtunity for him to take a game loss instead of DQ. About the $1000, I would be shit out of luck. If it actually happened, I wouldn't have to convince a cop that someone stole $1000 from me. I would go get it, end of story. I wouldn't let somebody punk me out of $1000. Just as you won that match, I would retrieve the $1000, somehow, some way. Yea, it would freakin suck if it actally happened, but justice is always served, whether you believe it is or not.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic
Pwn'd. |
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| I need the "eye in the sky" like at the casino's Tony, oh and don't call me Marty!
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Really he looks you in the eye and draw 3 cards and then tells Martin he only drew 2? How can you even give the opportunity for a game loss? He hasn't done anything wrong? He only drew 2 cards, and that is what mulldrifter says? how can you rectify that situation? What if it was't Mike who did it? What if it was Me? What if you were at a PTQ and some random guy did it? Would you be gentlemanly? or would you be pissed that this guy is outright lying?
Furthermore, How can you just get the money back? There is a cop there and anything you do might be percieved as stealing "his" $1000? You going to break into his house and take it? you going to beat him up and take it?
What if after he took your money, he started telling everyone he knew that some jerkoff tried to take $1000 from him? Then what?
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| What about Arhur? The Gentleman who allegednly stole the Foil Elspeth? (Mike did win that draft right? so it was his card.) I caught him drawing an extra card? He set up his deck lining up two cards to look like one, and then drew them both? Is he a cheater? Or am I not giving him a fair shake?
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| if somebody needs to cheat to beat me, even though i didnt win the battle, i would know that i am such a good player that they would have to cheat to beat me. in fact, i would never report cheating.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| And that is fine... Silly but fine. I think that if the situation arose though you may feel differently.
Oh, and the person who "cheated" won the Star City Games $5000. That could have been you.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| One question for you, Matt. Who all was watching the match that you had with Mike? |
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| Here is an interesting article: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/6568.html
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| No one was watching. Like I said in my write up, this is pretty much a He-Said/ She-said situation.
Another question Ben, if you aren't tired of my hypotheticals yet. If this had happened between Me and Penny Dude would you be having the same reaction?
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| First, I apologize Josh, one for not knowing you were the Hendricks that replied earlier, and two for the misunderstanding. I had heard that others mentioned you caught him doing so. But, I'm over this. I do not want to pull Christian or you into this. My bad, I should've used Nation as the example. I apologize for that! I feel I have every right, just as anyone else on here to ask what is going on. Thank you Matt for complying and just answering my question. I don't agree, but as you pointed out, being his girlfiend I wouldn't. He has nothing to gain from lying to me. If anything I would be the person he would confide aything in. But, there are several instances where his blood sugar is a factor, and this seems to be blown over. It is difficult for someone without a disease such as diabetes to understand this. Regardless, Matt, I ask you to please remove the * from Mike's name, because without Martin's approval I think it is way over the top. Even Martin agreed that it was going overboard. And your example of the $1,000 is a weak comparison. If anything this was a card game. You know, little pieces of paper that go for ungodly amounts of money, not the livelihood of another person. As stated, minds will not change, I only wished to get to the bottom by asking what had happened. This was answered so this is dead. I still find it pathetic because this is just another skirmish over a stupid game of cards! Over the grand prize of what: MORE CARDS, so more people can argue. I just hope this can be resolved. P. S. If this were truly a he said/he said then Mike would be able to post his side of the situation here as well. Since it is not, it is simply a Matt said and that is it. |
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 | Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Jeremy Banks
Member Since: 5/3/2008
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| I was not there obviously and only wish to comment on what I am reading. You know you 2 are going to have to agree to disagree. I like everyone down there, at varying degrees of course. If anyone, including my great friend Josh, cheated and I caught him, I would obviously give him the benefit of the doubt due to our friendship. That is were most of Bens responses come from. On the flip side, if someone I at heart didn't care for that much cheated and I caught them, I would be more apt to think it was intentional. That is partially where Matt's responses come from. An example, I accidentaly cheated Josh at the dollar rare draft a while back. I was abusing a card in play for the entire game not paying attention to the card having an upkeep that I was not paying. It was the sole reason I won the second game forcing a game three. As I searched for cards to come out and sideboard in, I noticed the text of the card and my erroneous error. I immediately conceded the match to Josh even though at the time I could have gotten away with it and had a chance at finals. My point is, accidents can happen and I am inclined to give Mike the benefit of the doubt. I have not seen nor heard of him cheating (even though I have said he is the luckiest, top-deckingest Mo-Fo I know!!)I am not picking sides here, only throwing my 2 cents in. I would also like to say this, "If anyone cheats me and I catch them, it's ass whoopin' time!!!! Just kidding (slightly)
“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.” - Ratadrabik of Urborg |
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| In my line of work (Photojournalist for a television station) a "he said/ she said" situtation is one person's side of a story.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Jen, the comparison was about what happens when something happens to you, and you know it happend but can't prove it. I used the $1000 because that is something real that everyone can understand.
And Jeremy the difference is that you noticed your error, and made the decision to bring it out. You weren't ever cheating. It is both yours and Josh's responsibilty to read the cards. Josh is at just as much fault as you were. If you started game three knowing what you knew then you would be cheating. Of course no one could prove that you knew it in the first place.
I believe that Mike did know what he was doing. If I didn't then I would have called it an accident.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/4/2009
Posted By: Jeremy Banks
Member Since: 5/3/2008
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| My comment about what happened in my game was to explain how an accident can happen. I completely understand everyones stance.
“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.” - Ratadrabik of Urborg |
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 | Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
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| I was there that saterday. And the only thing I herd was Matt calling Mike a cheat and a lier. And had his voice rased so every one could here that. And hitting his hand on the tabul. I think that was Unsports man conduct in my opinion. I know i dont have much to ofer to this but this. Accident's Happen We are all human and the only one that took mikes Blood shuger in to consedrastion is Jen, A diabetic can have alot of problums with jugment and semple thins as counting. If you all take that in to consedration there is nothing to git mad about. It happend mike took the lose from drowing the 7th card that is all that in my opion could have been done. I think that this is gust like (Steve-o) Reading in to the game to much. I go to the house to have fun and play not to see two pepole fight and shout. That is my opinan about all this sorry if it ofinds any one that is not what im trying to do.
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| No problem here Bruce, thanks for your input.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| So is Mike exercising enough and eating properly?
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| The diabetes excuse should not work in this situation. It's his responsibility to take care of himself and check his blood sugar when he feels weird. He's smart enough to at least do that. |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
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| To Penny Dude: You can not predict your blood sugar dropping. In the middle of a match people will not let you have a few mintues to check that. So has far as in the middle of a match it Mike is acting weird, will everybody allow him five mintues to check his blood sugar. Esp. when the rounds are timed. I don't think so.
As for exercising and eating properly. He can be doing all of that and still have problems. An attack can happen any where at any time. It is how the body reacts. And it can happen real fast and unexpectly.
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Until you guys know what it's like, don't criticize a diabetic for not taking care of themselves. Do you have diabetes? If not, then shut up. But don't mind me. Go ahead, make an ass out of yourselves just a little bit more. I find it rather amusing.
Pwn'd. |
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| I like boobies.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| You can also suck mean OR nice dicks. I can quote you on that! hahahaha
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
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| Say What?!
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| I was diagnosed with Pre-Diabetes. I took it as a wake up call to exercise and eat healthier. I don't think Diabetes has anything to do with why someone would cheat, accidentally draw another card, or play better/worse than they usually do. My dad has type 2 diabetes. He is still smart as a whip. The only effect diabetes has on him that he sometimes gets weaker. He still knows what to do when that happens. If my opponent started bleeding from the eyes, vomiting uncontrollably, or just wanted to check their blood glucose levels I would stop the game and let them take care of them self.
Yet, this isn't about diabetes, or who has it or doesn't have it, it's about an occurrence at The Hobby Horse. Nobody, friend or foe, knows what happened except Matt Ratz and Mike Dale. I know you'd like to think your friends would never cheat, or tell lies, or whatever. Jen asked what happened, and Matt described, as he saw it, what happened. I'm sure she has Dale's side of it. That's it people. Get on with your lives. Will people think differently about Ratz and Dale? You betcha. Will I watch Mike like a hawk, to make sure he isn't cheating? Oh yea. If he isn't found to cheat and time goes by will the atrocity, forthwith know as 1/31, go away? Maybe.
Let's not split the Horse in two, with people siding with either Dale or Ratz. Let's not make the Horse a place where I go and I HAVE TO hate Ben, because he doesn't like my friend Ratz. I like Ben, Bruce, PennyDude, Jeremy, Jen, Martin, Josh, and whoever else is planning to write on here. Peace Out.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I didn't say I don't like Ratz. I believe we are still on good terms. Aren't we?
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I feel left out. I have also drawn 7 cards after a mulligan. I honestly expect everyone has. I wouldn't even offer a game loss, because it seems to me forcibly mulling to 5 seems punishment enough.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
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| Im not saying all this is about mikes diabetes. Im saying that if any one of us has a medical problum that can couse a jugment problum we should not blame thim if that are having that problum in the medul of the mach. Ex. ( I have epalepse and i have a secher in the medul of the mach. Not jumping around but looking calm and still there and I play a card and not pay for the mana and that persion called me a cheat and i stud up and slaped them. I am not in right mind and shuld not be helt acountibul for that but at the same time i had no right to do that as will. What should happen to me? Most of you i think would tell martion that i should not be aloud to play at the horse any more and some would say It was not his falt the had a seicher and disregard my actions at that time. I think that is what should happen around this. I think all of you as frinds at the horse. I did not mean for Mikes medical to go as far as it did (sorry Mike and Jen) every one is gust reading more in to what i said than what i meant. Diabetes afects pepol defritly that is all im trying to say.
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
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| And Matt Rats: I understand what you are saying. You saw what you saw. And im not saying you didn't. I have been going to the horse for a few years now and if you watch Mike when he has his suger low he plays alot different. That could be the case it could not be the case. I just hope this dosn't change any thing between us as friends or fellow Magic the Gathering players.
I did not mean for Mike's medical to go so far as it did. Everyone is just reading it more then what I said. Diabetes effects people differently. My mom is a nurse, and I have family members who have diabetes, so does my wife. And it effects people differently.
I am not taking sides I am just pointing out things that people might over look. I am neurtal in this. I can see both points of views. But at times eyes can play tricks and what you see might not be what is really happening.
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Bruce Wells
Joined before August '08
|
| Hello everyone, you all do not know me, if so not that well. I am Bruce's wife Tracie. I do not mean no disrespect to anyone for anything. Bruce comes home and tells me what happens at the store. I have read everything one here. This is from someone standing from the out side and sometimes that is the best view.
As I saw in the postings and what Bruce has told me, there are 3 possible scenarios on what happen. Which one is true I can not say.
1. If Mike knownly, purposely, free welling cheated then yes he should be DQ. He showed diesrespect to Matt for cheating. I heard that Mike said he was sorry and took the round lost with no problems, which that showed respect to Matt.I then heard that Matt went off on Mike by raising his voice, slamed his hand/fist on the table and told Matt that he was a F****** cheat. After Mike gave Matt the round 2 match. If this happen then Matt should have taken some deep breaths. Going off like that, if true that is what Matt did, then this action showed disrespect to Mike.
2nd. I heard that Mike was playing with old sleeves. The possible over draw might have been caused for the sticking of the sleeves. If this was true then Mike did the honorable thing and gave Matt the round 2 match. This showed respect.
3rd. I also heard/read here that Mike has a medical problem. Diabetes. I know people who have this. My dad had this. The best person who knows how Mike acts with low blood sugar is Jen. If Jen says "decreases his mental awareness to that of a drunkard. You can notice his actions vary when he has low blood sugar". Then we should trust in what she says. She knows him the best. If this is true then he should not be accountable for what happen. As fellow MTG Players you all should be watching out for each other. If anyone saw Mike was acting diffently then someone should have stepped in.
Three scenarios either one can be true. Matt said he saw with his own eyes that Mike cheated. But eyes can show us something that is not there. The point is that there might be a reason for what happen and again their might not be a reason and Mike did cheat knownly. The point also is to open to the possibility that there was something wrong and that your eyes did not catch it.
This is me saying this and not Bruce. I am a big believer in RESPECT. I hate it when people DISREPECT each other. I also believe in looking at the bigger picture instead of just on one point on the picture. You might miss something that is importanted.
No disrespect intended Matt. My opinion, in what I read in these posts, I feel that the people are trying to get you to look at the bigger picture then just that point on the picture. You "saw him cheat" with your own eyes. But if scenario 3 is true then you can not see what is happening inside Mike's body. If you saw the bigger picture and seen that Mike was acting differently then you should have stopped the game and show concern to Mike and see if he needed help.
I am not taking sides. I am an outsider looking in. I read all the blogs and heard the story.
In my opinion both Mike and Matt should apologize to each other,shake hands and get on to what you both love to do and that is to play MTG.
P.S.
(Mike, why have you not reply to what is being said and defend your self or give a reason for what has happen?)
To win is to loose and anger is peace and hate is love... |
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| Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Its nice to have a topic that can bring everyone together so well.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you to everyone in one respect. Everyone here is making a decision on their own, not running with the crowd. To answer your question Tracy, he is quite upset with the whole situation due to previous situations on the website. When he came home after the tournement he was so upset. I care for him and hate to see him hurt so I decided to ask what happened; leading to all of this. I also want to show that I am not just writing what Mike wants me to say. These are all my own words as well.
I also want to say thank you to all of our friends for their voices. It is good to know who's on your side! Thank you also to Tracy for a nuetral perspective. This is why I know in my heart that Mike didn't cheat.
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|
 | Date Posted: 2/5/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| I don't really have much to add to this situation, but I think the asterick near Mikes name is an overstep. It has spread to everything with Mike's name: posts, event results, etc. I didn't see much that happened except for what I heard from the table I was playing at, but the scorn shown to Mike is crossing the line. He can't even do anything about it! However, I'm not one to take sides in situations like this unless I know a lot about it. This topic has gotten rather long hasn't it?
... |
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| Date Posted: 2/6/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Tracie, thanks for posting, It is nice to get a (seemingly) impartial opinion.
To answer a few of your questions, First off, Mike cannot respond here, because (at his request) he was banned from posting. You can read the actual thread here.
http://www.midmagic.com/Question.aspx?ID=208
There are also more gems that can be found in the forums, but you will have to search for them.
Secondly, Mike did not say that he was sorry. I don't think that this would have made a difference at the time anyway, but you saying that he did makes me feel a little bit more like a dick than I should.
Thirdly, I agree and know that "Eye-Witness" accounts are not very reliable. If you talk to cops at accidents or what not, they will tell you the same thing. 8 people saw what happened, and there are 8 diffrent stories. That being said, there was really only 1 thing to watch. And that was him hiding the 7th card in the palm of his hand. Could I have been wrong? sure. but then when he counted those cards out there would have only been 6.
Fourth(ly?) I am a big fan of respect. But respect is earned and not just given away.
Lastly (And this is the crux of my argument) When I asked Mike how many cards he had. He said 6. Immediately. He didn't pick his cards up off the table. He didn't look at his hand, he didn't even pause to think about why I might be asking him this question. It was an immediate 6. Then when I asked again (because he hadn't counted the cards) He gave me the "look" which I described above.
I have a very serious question for everyone here. What would you do if you had 7 cards in your hand. You ARE intentionally cheating. You know you have 7 cards in your hand, and you are only supposed to have 6? What would you do if someone asked you how many cards were in your hand?
And please don't give me any BS about how "Well I would never do that." This is a hypothetical and hypothetically we are all capable of doing anything. You don't need to post your answer. Just think about it.
As far as the prevelance of the asterisk, It is a simple explaination. I just added it to the end of Mike's name in the database. Anywhere his name shows up from the database, there is an asterisk. I could have done it another way where it only showed up on the Result and Points pages, but that would have taken a lot more coding, and I frankly didn't want to do more work because of Mike. I already had to add a lot of stuff just to ban him.
And finally at Paul's request, because while he doesn't want to choose sides and he didn't hear what was going on, he thinks the asterisk is over the line. So I guess I will take it off. I was going to end up having a vote on the subject, but it appears that the majority already disagree with me, so that seems irrelevant.
Jen, it appears the side the crowd is running on is yours. I sincerly hope he never does anything that disappoints you. (you too Ben.)
Everyone else who is more concerned with maintaining tranquility over getting answers to a very real problem.... I hope it doesn't (and hasn't) happened to you. I hope you aren't missing out on packs because someone (anyone) stole them from you, or maybe your friend or brother. Like I said It won't happen to me again.
Other than that? While I have numerous other questions,they fall on deaf ears. So.... What-the-fuck-ever. I'm done.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/6/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
|
| Well, Apparently I am a fuck-up and Deleted this whole thread. I had to go back to the copy of the database that I downloaded this morning to retrieve as much of a back up as I have, so the last 10 responses are now gone.
I vaguely remember what was here. Ben said thanks. Bruce said He didn't want me to be upset with him or his wife. I said I wasn't. Jen said thanks and other stuff. I asked again about Christian being a cheater. Penny-dude answerd my question. I told him that was the good guy answer and I wanted the bad guy answer. Martin agian talked about how accidents can happen. Tony Posted an Ebay link to a super surviellance camera.
I think that was about it. I apparently need to move the delete link further away.....
Please if you can (and want to), just re-write what you said earlier.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| I actually talked more about everyone paying closer attention to their matches but I feel cheated now that we may not hit 100 on this now, oh and my last post was #69 is that what threw you off that magic little number? And I am glad you removed the asterisk but I absolutely respect your opinion Matt I just thought the asterisk reminded me too much of Samual L. Jackson's(who I usually like in movies) performance in The Spirit it was just over the top.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/6/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| Thanks.
... |
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| Just to clarify another overblown situation, I never stated that Christian is a cheater. What I said was another "situation" like this occurred. That was all it was, but the problem has been resolved. I apologize if this was misconstrued in any way Christian. As I have also posted, I respect Christian! He's a great guy and he's someone that doesn't ruin the game with whining, crying, or other childish means. |
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| Jen, you did say Mike caught Christian cheating. Christian suffers from Dandy-Walker Syndrome, and sometimes loses control of his mental faculties. I don't think this is fair that you take advantage of someone of his nature. I demand a ';)' symbol be placed by his name on here.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| I would refer you to the post but it must have been deleted by the glitch. I did state that it was a situation. |
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| Date Posted: 2/8/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
|
| "Zach does this kind of queer I’m-only-going-to-touch-the-corner-of-my-card-when-I-draw kind of draw."
What the fuck does that mean?!?
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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 | Date Posted: 2/8/2009
Posted By: Collin Mustain
Joined before August '08
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| "Zach does this kind of queer I’m-only-going-to-touch-the-corner-of-my-card-when-I-draw kind of draw."
What the fuck does that mean?!?
I think it means you should make sure your not using reflective sleeves so no one thinks your trying to peek at ur next cards. but back to the original reason for this post. I have to say i agree with matt, drawing an extra card is something that happens some times, but trying to hide it rather than admit is rediculously immature. I make stupid little mistakes all the time, Matt can even back me on this on 2 particular occasions, one being a legacy match against zack, and the other being against himself in a 2hg at mecca, i may have joked around a little, but I accepted the gameloss fairly and went on my way. But trying to blaitinly cheat sickens me. thats why anyone that has played me knows i am constantly asking how many cards my aponent has in hand. Not that i'm trying to be rude or dont trust the person, its just a good habit to be in for the occasions that someone is trying to cheat you. One person in particualar i should point out is Arther, if you dont know who he is, he is an old fat guy from springfield with only a couple of his teeth, if you watch he alwasy draws his cards realy quickly and when you arent paying much attention. this happend to me at the conflux prerelease, but i couldnt be certain and was too tired to try and count his cards. but after the match i talked to a few ppl that said he does the same thing to him, people like that should be dq'd and if they do it enough they should be reported to the dci and banned from sanctioned play. sorry if some of you do not agree with my opinions but cheating just strait up PISSES ME OFF.
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| Date Posted: 2/8/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Lol, I hope im not trying to cheat, because I am doing a very shitty job :)
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Thank you for your views Collin. I have no idea who you are but it is still appreciated. I do agree about Arthur, but in regards to Mike (the subject of the post), have you ever played him? Just asking so please do not think I am attacking or anything? |
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| Date Posted: 2/9/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Man, I hope no one ever trusted this guy...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090209/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_rodriguez_steroids
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Now they need to release those other 103 names!
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/9/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| word
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 2/10/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I'm really interested to see if Albert Pujols is the only great baseball player to never take steroids.
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 2/10/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I always thought Griffey was a great player and supposedly his name has never been mentioned and if he was using that HGH stuff with all those magical healing properties it didn't work very well for him because he spent the better part of 3 seasons on the DL.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 2/10/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Thats very true. I really didn't expect A-Rod, though. I mean, I accused him of it because I hate the Yankees, but I wasn't being serious.
Pwn'd. |
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